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lørdag 9. november 2013

I dag faller dommen mellom striden mellom Thailand og Kambotsja

Rettelse dommen faller på Mandag den 11.

Se info om dette her

Dommen har falt i denne omstride saken.

Her er utfallet.

The United Nations' highest court did not specify precisely how the area in the ruling maps onto that which is claimed by Cambodia, saying only that it should correspond with the natural promontory, and that the border line did not have to follow the watershed, as Thailand has argued.


However, the court rejected Cambodia's claim that it was also awarded a nearby hill by the 1962 ICJ ruling that was being interpreted in Monday's judgment. Known as Pheu Makheu in Thailand and Phnum Trap in Cambodia, the hill falls under the disputed 4.6 square kilometre area.

Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul said in The Hague that both sides are satisfied with the court's decision. After this, the two counties will hold talks in a panel planned to jointly develop the area, Mr Surapong said.
                                                                        Part 1

                                                                     Part 2

Signalene jeg har hørt gjentatt i media og av folk i Thailand er det samme som krigen over indokina.Og det er at hvorfor skal vi rette oss etter tidligere kolonimakter?

Og her får jeg endelig bekreftelse på innlegget.(14.11.2013)

Se signalene selv:

"Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra insisted in parliament yesterday she had never accepted the International Court of Justice's (ICJ) decision awarding the entire Preah Vihear promontory to Cambodia. "

Jeg selv ser helt klart at dette er et viktig poeng. Her sitter altså dommere fra de tidligere kolonimaktene og avgjør ting som dem selv har vært med på å skape.

Hvem gav Frankrike rett til å innvadere Thailand, og skape Indokina? Og hvorfor skal det i 2013 være dommere fra Frankriket, england, USA som skal avgjøre landområder som ble tatt av Frankriket . Da når Frankriket så tapte krigen gikk USA til krig for å forsvare kolonimakten Frankriket.

Frankriket har intet å gjøre i en dom som gjelder Thailand. Dette har heller ikke UK, og USA.

Haag dommstolen skulle vært av nøytrale land som ikke har vært kolonimakter. Da hadde dommen vært mer rettferdig.

Det  er lett å glemme tidligere historier, og derfor har jeg vedlagt filmer nedenfor av indokina konflikten.

Husk en ting, og det er at i 1975 var vietnamkrigen over. Det er flere som fortsatt minnes den tiden. og
Men til ettertanke for Thailand bør man se på løsningen som Norge og Russland gjennomførte.

Norges deling med Russland

Utfallet kan vel egentlig sammenlignes med den Norske og Russiske konflikten over nordområdene.

Jeg fant en link som tar for seg Cambodia sitt syn.Hvor man skriver følgende:

"Unlike the Khmers, Thais, known then as Siameses, were not natives of the region. The kingdom of Thailand, known then as Siam, did not appear in Southeast Asia until the mid- 14th century.

A well-known Thai historian, Sulak Sivarak, who was a Nobel Peace Prize nominee and the winner of the Right Livelihood Award said of the Khmer Empire: "It included everything right up to Lopburi and all of what is now Bangkok".

Answer to this article:
I have before written about this temple, and some info is on the blogg.

The link above show Cambodia view.

 Thailand had a large "Siam" before the Frence started there quest for land.

The view the blogger above talk about, make me think like this:
"For me it will be the same as we Norwegian should say that USA belong to Norway, because the vikings was the first to find USA."

Let see the evidence :

"Who discovered America? When Columbus returned from the Antilles in 1493, he was not the first European to have stepped in the New World.

It seems that, 500 years before, a group of blond Scandinavians had done it. It happened during the Viking era, when these sailors and warriors were roaming northern Africa, eastern Europe and the Middle East. "

So therefor Norway own USA, right ? 

Source :

Also in your article you say :

"Cambodia was a vassal state under Siam during the reign of King Ang Duong."

Well you see that easy on the map from 1351 until 1907, that is 556 years this was under Siam.

I would think that is a long claim ?

From 1907 until today  it is 107 years. But Thailand never said they agree to the rulling in court in 1962, so this is really not 107 years.

It is from 1907 until 1962 this was under Cambodia and that is 55 years.
And it was taken from Thailand by France . So this is the same way, if germany should say they had France under the war in 1942.

The land should have been returned to Siam after this:

In the nineteenth century , interest in the colonization of Indochina in Europe. France , which then had already gained influence in Cochinkina.

Cambodia established a protectorate in 1863 after a request from King Norodom of Cambodia.  

The French wanted to increase their sphere of influence and pressure Siam to conclude the French- Thai treaty of 1867 , which rejected Thailand's sovereignty over Cambodia against Battambang , Banteay Meanchey , Oddar Meancheay and Siem Reap provinces officially became part of Thailand

 These provinces were returned to Cambodia for a boundary adjustment treaty in 1906 between French Indochina, the French colonial federation created in Indochina in 1887 

And Thailand, against Thailand got Trat , Dan Sai and Loei . The French surveyed the border between French Cambodia and Thailand on behalf of a bilateral border commission. This map showed Preah Vihear as part of Cambodia , which fought with the prior agreement of 1904. Despite this, Thailand used the map in official use, which has affected the current conflict .

Without help from France, cambodia would not had this land.

And the historian you talk about might be this ?

See the history here:

Ayutthaya Kingdom

Thonburi Kingdom (1768–1782)

Rattanakosin Empire (1782-1856)

same map as above from 1768 to 1782

Siam Empire (1856–1932)

In 1893 the French authorities in Indochina used a minor border dispute to provoke a crisis.

French gunboats appeared at Bangkok, and demanded the cession of Lao territories east of the Mekong. The King appealed to the British, but the British minister told the King to settle on whatever terms he could get, and he had no choice but to comply. Britain's only gesture was an agreement with France guaranteeing the integrity of the rest of Siam. In exchange, Siam had to give up its claim to the Tai-speaking Shan region of north-eastern Burma to the British.

The French, however, continued to pressure Siam, and in 1906–1907 they manufactured another crisis. This time Siam had to concede French control of territory on the west bank of the Mekong opposite Luang Prabang and around Champasak in southern Laos, as well as western Cambodia.

The British interceded to prevent more French bullying of Siam, but their price, in 1909 was the acceptance of British sovereignty over of Kedah, Kelantan, Perlis and Terengganu under Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909.

All of these "lost territories" were on the fringes of the Siamese sphere of influence and had never been securely under their control, but being compelled to abandon all claim to them was a substantial humiliation to both king and country (historian David K. Wyatt describes Chulalongkorn as "broken in spirit and health" following the 1893 crisis) and is the basis for the change in the name of the country; with the loss of these territories Great Siam was now no more, the king now ruled only the core Thai lands.

 In the early 20th century these crises were adopted by the increasingly nationalist government as symbols of the need for the country to assert itself against the West and its neighbours.

 1907: Siam surrenders to France the Cambodian province around Angkor


Paper Money of French Indochina

France obtained control over northern Vietnam following its victory over China in the Sino-French war (1884–1885). 

French Indochina was formed in October 1887 from Annam, Tonkin, Cochinchina (which together form modern Vietnam) and the Kingdom of Cambodia; Laos was added after the Franco-Siamese War in 1893.
The federation lasted until 1954. In the four protectorates, the French formally left the local rulers in power, who were the Emperors of Vietnam, Kings of Cambodia, and Kings of Luang Prabang, but in fact gathered all powers in their hands, the local rulers acting only as figureheads.

What was France after:

Rich resources of rice, oil, iron ore, rubber, tin, and later bauxite and titanium, among others using colonials employed at slave wages.

French colonialism in Vietnam

Vietnam - History

Indochina War Timeline: 1945

French colonialism in Vietnam

Negotiations with France shortly before World War II had shown that the French government was willing to make appropriate changes in the boundaries between Thailand and French Indochina, but only slightly. 

Following the Fall of France in 1940, Major-General Plaek Pibulsonggram (popularly known as "Phibun"), the prime minister of Thailand, decided that France's defeat gave the Thais an even better chance to regain the territories they had lost during King Chulalongkorn's reign.

The German occupation of metropolitan France made France's hold on its overseas possessions, including Indochina, tenuous.

Where this picture show the leader of France ( Indo china)

"1940 oktober hvor Pétain og Hitler håndhilste og blitt enige om dette samarbeidet mellom de to statene."

The isolated colonial administration was cut off from outside help and outside supplies. 

After the Japanese invasion of Indochina in September 1940, the French were forced to allow Japan to set up military bases. 

This seemingly subservient behaviour convinced the Phibun regime that Vichy France would not seriously resist a confrontation with Thailand

- The Thai Army was a relatively well-equipped force.[10] Consisting of 60,000 men

- French forces in Indochina consisted of an army of approximately 50,000 men, of whom 12,000 were French, organised into forty-one infantry battalions, two artillery regiments, and a battalion of engineers.[7]


During World War II, Thailand took the opportunity of French weaknesses to reclaim previously lost territories, resulting in the French-Thai War between October 1940 and 9 May 1941. 

The Thai forces generally did well on the ground, but Thai objectives in the war were limited.

In January, Vichy French naval forces decisively defeated Thai naval forces in the Battle of Koh Chang. The war ended in May at the instigation of the Japanese, with the French forced to concede territorial gains for Thailand

The Battle of Ko Chang took place on 17 January 1941 during the Franco-Thai War and resulted in a decisive victory by the French over the Royal Thai Navy. During the battle, a flotilla of French warships attacked a smaller force of Thai vessels, including a coastal battleship.

In the end, Thailand lost two ships sunk and one heavily damaged and grounded. Within a month of the engagement, the Vichy French and the Thais negotiated a peace which ended the war.

Philippe Pétain

Pétain's actions during World War II resulted in his conviction and death sentence for treason,

After the liberation of France on 7 September 1944, Pétain and other members of the French cabinet at Vichy were relocated by the Germans to Sigmaringen in Germany, where they became a government-in-exile until April 1945.

Pétain, however, having been forced to leave France, refused to participate in this government and Fernand de Brinon now headed the 'government commission.'[33] 

In a note dated 29 October 1944, Pétain forbade de Brinon to use the Marshal's name in any connection with this new government, and on 5 April 1945, Pétain wrote a note to Hitler expressing his wish to return to France. No reply ever came. However, on his birthday almost three weeks later, he was taken to the Swiss border. Two days later he crossed into the French frontier.[34]

Postwar trial and legacy

The Fort du Portalet in the Pyrenees
De Gaulle later wrote that Pétain's decision to return to France to face his accusers in person was "certainly courageous".[35]

The provisional government headed by de Gaulle placed Pétain on trial, which took place from 23 July to 15 August 1945, for treason.

Dressed in the uniform of a Marshal of France, Pétain remained silent through most of the proceedings after an initial statement that denied the right of the High Court, as constituted, to try him.

 De Gaulle himself was later to criticize the trial, stating, "Too often, the discussions took on the appearance of a partisan trial, sometimes even a settling of accounts, when the whole affair should have been treated only from the standpoint of national defense and independence."[36]

At the end of Pétain's trial, although the three judges recommended acquittal on all charges, the jury convicted him and sentenced him to death by a one-vote majority.

Due to his advanced age, the Court asked that the sentence not be carried out. De Gaulle, who was President of the Provisional Government of the French Republic at the end of the war, commuted the sentence to life imprisonment due to Pétain's age and his military contributions in World War I.

 After his conviction, the Court stripped Pétain of all military ranks and honours save for the one distinction of Marshal of France.

Maréchal is a title conferred by a special personal law passed by the French Parliament which, under the separation of powers principle, the French Court did not have the power to overturn.[citation needed]
Fearing riots at the announcement of the sentence, de Gaulle ordered that Pétain be immediately transported on the former's private aircraft to Fort du Portalet in the Pyrenees,[37] where he remained from 15 August to 16 November 1945. The government later transferred him to the Fort de Pierre-Levée citadel on the Île d'Yeu, a small island off the French Atlantic coast.[38]

The ending of Indo China

First Indochina War (1/5)

First Indochina War (2/5) 

First Indochina War (3/5)

First Indochina War (4/5)

First Indochina War (5/5)

The Vietnam War or Second Indochina War

After France's attempted recolonization of Indochina was defeated in 1954 by the Viet Minh at the battle of Điện Biên Phủ, an agreement to temporarily partition the country in two with a de-militarized zone (DMZ) was reached at the Geneva Conference (1954).

 The Vietnam War ostensibly began as a civil war between feuding governments. Being Western-oriented and perceived as less popular than Hồ Chí Minh's northern government, the South Vietnam government fought largely to maintain its governing status within the partitioned entity, rather than to "unify the country" as was the goal of the North. Fighting began in 1957 and with U.S. and Soviet-Chinese involvement would steadily escalate and spill over into the neighboring Indochinese countries of Cambodia and Laos.

The Geneva partition was not a natural division of Vietnam and was not intended to create two separate countries. But the South government, with the support of the United States, blocked the Geneva scheduled elections for reunification. In the context of the Cold War, and with the recent Korean War as a precedent, the U.S. had feared that a reunified Vietnam would elect a Communist government under the popular Hồ Chí Minh, either freely or fraudulently.


 The Second indochina war del 1

 The Second indochina war del 2

 The Second indochina war del 3

 The Second indochina war del 4

 The Second indochina war del 5


Thailands role in Vietnam war

  Tenk dere dette , Frankriket invaderte Thailand. Deretter tapte de krigen mot Vietnam. Så går USA inn i Vietnam og forsvarer kolonien .

Thailand har altså tapt landområder til Frankriket. Og så forsvarer USA at disse landområdene skulle ligge under tilsvarende koloni.


Altså får USA lov til å ta utgangspunkt i Thailand. Da selv om "kolonimakten" har fratatt dem land.

Og Thailand hjelper USA. Hvem ville gitt fra seg landområder og så hjulpet kolonimakten?

Dette viser Thaiene sin velvilje.

Det er egentlig en skam at USA og Frankriket nå sitter å ikke tar dette innover seg. 

Tror Thailand angrer på at dem hjalp USA nå. 


15.11.2013 -  Thailand to oppose temple plan


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